Orienteering NZ Wiki

And questions on “how can I…”

I have drawn several maps using NZTM co-ordinates with OCAD8. This OCAD version does not allow you to import GPX data files (OCAD9 does).

The largest OCAD map file I have used so far is 9.8MB (for a topo map) My older computer is coping OK, but the monitor refreshing takes a while. Much faster on my newer computer.

Michael said “When using a curved “selected object” as the cut line, the partial map sometimes contains stuff outside the line, and some stuff (usu contours) inside the line is missing.”

I have never encountered this problem. I have always used straight line mode to create my cut lines. Could that be the difference?

Yes, for this problem map the get-around is to to create partial maps with straight cutlines, which have never given me any problem.

I have sent the problem map to OCAD. As I recall they said something like, “yes the partial map function sometimes gives problems.” They're a bit disappointing like that, one would hope for “thank you this has been registered as bug #1234, we'll let you know when its fixed.”

Interesting to note that the Partial Map feature has changed with with each version of OCAD since it was first introduced in OCAD 7. The rule of thumb is to make sure that at least one point from each symbol around the required edge of the map is inside the “cutting line” (i.e. the line symbol selected as a cutting tool).

If you've been sloppy with your drawing techniques you can easily be exposed when creating partial maps.

I wouldn't like to be without the partial map tool. I well remember the frustrations trying to manually cut segments from a map in the OCAD 5 and 6 days.

Map Guy, could you amplify that rule of thumb? Are you suggesting examining many many objects in some way? And what sort of sloppy drawing are you referring to?

I would think I do the same sort of drawing on the one map that has the partial map problem as I do on all the others (which don't!) I usually extract the A4 or A3 part of the map using a rectangular cutting object (which I keep in the file off to one side); and then I use a curved cut line on the result to make way for legend etc.

Its important to say that curved cut lines are normally OK; but the maths must be fairly complex so I'm not surprised there is the odd bug.

It's my “rule of thumb”. I don't religously check every object, but visually compare the cutout piece with the original map. If I detect problems I select that item and look at the points. If required, I'll manually add extra points, then regenerate the partial map. Hopefully, I'll get it right.

I'm not inferring by any means that you would ever draw a sloppy map Michael - far from it. But inexperienced OCAD cartographers often do. They cut corners and whilst it may visually look OK when printed and on the screen, but when it comes to future editing (e.g. cutting out a partial map or changing vegetation at a later refieldworking) problems arise. An example is one area colour partially overlaying another one. It often becomes a nightmare for future map updating

Thanks, I might try that on my problem map next time I want to do an extract. It covers The Akatarawa Forest out to the Kapiti Coast, and has rather a lot of contours.

I'm sure we each have drawing habits good and bad which are worth discussing. I too don't like coloured areas on top of other areas, and will use curve following to avoid it. That's not to say I never have an overlap, but just keep them to a minimum.

And another source of handy tricks is the OCAD “Howtos” on their website. Looked at the new ones just now and found some shortcut ways of making a short gap in a line, for example.

Another method to help tidy up the edges of a partial map is to first export the original map at 300dpi. This gives you a template which can be imported under the partial map. OCAD9 allows you to be selective about how much map you can export as a template. OCAD8 gives the whole map which you can crop in other software if required.

Either hide the icons you don't want, or turn on hatching for area symbols. Manually tidy up the edges. You'll probably have to dim the template or else you'll get horribly confused with the partial map.

Does anyone have any experience with smoothing lines? I've got LIDAR contours from a local body, and there are more points than I think are necessary, and the file size is rather large (10's of Mb). They are destined for a topo-style map rather than a basemap, ie I want to use them largely “as is” rather than as a basis for fieldwork.

I would like to simplify the lines by dropping points that don't contribute much to the shape. There's a “smooth” function in OCAD that appears to reduce points by a certain amount, and if you keep using it the line gets simpler and simpler (and further from the original). It doesn't appear to stop when there's a given amount of difference. Anyone got any tips for using this? Or know the maths behind it?

There also appears to be software out there for “simplifying polylines” in shapefiles and DXF files. Any experience with these?

I asked OCAD about the smoothing. It uses the Douglas Peucker algorithm, which is fairly straightforward - successively testing points to see whether removal would move the line by more than x. I had to ask a second time to see what x was for the three different levels of smoothing. I don't understand why there are two sets of figures, but it gives us some idea:

“The tolerance to keep a point in a line or remove it is - Level 0: 0.01mm - Level 1: 0.0175mm - Level 2: 0.02mm The line can move - Level 0: 0 mm - Level 1: 0.02mm - Level 2: 0.04mm”

0.04mm at 1:15,000 is 0.6m, which would seem to be insignificant, although as we are concerned with shape rather than actual position there might be more to it than that. Guess we'll just have to do some trials and eyeball the new vs the old.

BTW my interest follows use of the “to curve” function some years ago. I initially thought this made nicer looking contours out of polylines, but later I discovered some oddities and have not touched it since. Problem is that you are probably doing heaps at once and you can't inspect the results in detail. Maybe I used too high a smoothing level.

I've used rubber-sheeting transformation on a real job and its very impressive.

A park map that had add-ons with the inevitable slight bend at the join, and as usual wasn't true to scale or north either. My reference was a framework from the LINZ orthophoto, it has to be opened as a template as the transform process transforms any symbol that you want to regard as “true” (it doesn't respect “protect”.)

The most useful thing is that you draw a boundary around a bit at a time and then play with that. If it doesn't go according to plan you simply undo and put in some more points either to drag something or tie it down where it is. And try again. Doesn't do everything of course, but much faster than cutting the map into bits as I did for the Bottle Lake overhaul.

I get an error message when I use the “Import from GPS” function on OCAD9. As soon as I click on this button a window appears that says “Unable to connect GPS!” The same thing happens when I click on “Connect GPS” and “Get waypoints”/“Get tracks”. I have to save the GPS file as a gpx on my computer somewhere and load click “Load” under “gpx file”. However, the GPS device connects fine to other programs on the computer, it only has troubles on OCAD.

Does anyone else have troubles with this, or know how to fix it?

Strange but true. See the GPS “how-to” on the OCAD website Nick. I think you need the professional version of OCAD to connect your GPS directly.

See also thread “Import GPS” last post in March this year

Is your GPS a Garmin? My Garmin eTrex Vista H works fine with this function. Haven't bothered trying my Magellans as OCAD says the feature is for Garmin only.

A bugbear of mine is errors in “partial map” using a selected curved object as the cutline. On a few of my maps it gives trouble - missing and spurious line objects in the resulting file. In response to my recent enquiry OCAD says they have found the cause of this problem and it will be fixed in the next service update. If you can't wait that long they suggest it is only where the cutline has a long curved segment, and you can insert extra points in the cutline.

I just use straight lines for my cutline so never have encountered this problem thankfully.

The OCAD 11 wiki is also mentioned in the latest OCAD newsletter (about the same time as Richard's original posting (1 Feb) above.

For those of you who don't get the OCAD newsletter go into the OCAD website and download it www.ocad.com

Question: I want to export control points to supplement a permanent rogaine course. This was an actual rogaine but the markers will have been picked up, and the plan is that you can do some practice at any time, analyse your track afterwards, or use “Go to” when you think you are there, etc.

I can export the controls from version 10 just fine, but in the resulting gpx file they have an ID that is, for my purposes, random. I suppose “wpt1” was the first control point I defined, “wpt2” the second etc, but I want to call them (for example) “CP25” and “CP100”. Of course the characters 25 and 100 are there on the map but as text objects and not logically related to the circles. (I didn't use a course setting package, maybe the answer is there.)

I can laboriously change wpt1 to CP25 etc in a text editor but it's slow and error-prone. Any ideas?

I didn't make it clear I want to get the control points onto a GPS as waypoints

“expand/shrink object about its centroid” try using the move parallel feature

Perfect, thanks Martin. Feature has been there for ages too! Invitation to all: post your favourite “OCAD feature that you think might not be widely known”.

That's a clever tool Martin, never used it before but it might be useful in sprint maps.

Some of my favourites… > “Dashpoint” changing gap position on a formline (though isn't pefect as it alters many gaps)

“Sissors” to cut gaps in tracks or contours to make gaps in an exact place when the formline symbol doesn't to a good job.
“Measure” obvoius tool I find handy if I've noted some distances on my fieldwork. ie; distances of objects from other features or known points on a vague area.
“Ctrl” button on keyboard, while holding this down you can follow a line with a different symbol, exactly and quickly. ie; two shades of green with no overlap or white gaps, open land or vegetaion matched to track, vegetation boundary to whatever.
“Change Symbol” one of my more favourite favourites, if I'm altering contours I will usually do all my new changes in blue (stream symbol) so that I know which one's have been corrected and also leaving the old ones there can help. Once finished updating it is then easier to identify where to cut the old contour with the sissors and use the change symbol button to put back to the correct contour symbol.

(interestingly I love seeing contours in blue, for some weird reason I find them clearer)

“Fill/make border” rather than draw another linear object and to be more precise.

I'm using the dashpoint more and more. I started with MTBO maps with track junctions, they look awful if a side track comes in at a gap, and they can also be ambiguous at indistinct junctions. Then realised they solved the problem of a slope tick on a formline ending up on a gap (especially after a scale change the dashes/gaps move around). And moved on to sharp bends in formlines (reentrants and spurs) which look far better if they are on a dash rather than a gap. They control the ticks on fences too which look odd if they end up at a corner. Lots of uses. Don't really know of a downside, Paul?

when there are lots and lots and lots of reentrants it struggles to cope, just like a runner.

Here is an interesting link to an experienced ISSOM sprint mapper whith some of his thoughts… http://www.soenniksen.dk/sprintkort/paths.htm

Another OCAD question for the gurus out there: Is there an easy way to enlarge a hole in an area symbol using the cut area or cut hole tool? I get an error message when I try this. Labout-intensive alternatives are to delete the hole and draw it again, or move the individual points defining the shape of the hole.

Mmmm. And any tips to avoid this pitfall? The arrow keys are nifty for fine movement of a selected object. And so my brain expects that having selected a hole the arrow key will move the hole. Nope. It moves the whole object.

Does the move parallel feature work for this Michael?

Measure twice, cut once

The Mmmm above means Mmaybe Mmartin has the answer to Jason's question. When I tried selecting a hole in version 10, the move-parallel button didn't become active.

A scissor feature that I was unaware of for ages: for a linear object you can drag the scissors from one point to another to create a gap. (I used to go cut, cut, select, delete.)

I use this to cut purple lines when course setting - makes it very easy.

A handy trick for magnetic north lines:

Rather than drawing each north line individually, you create a hatched area symbol, similar to undergrowth, for the north lines, and draw over the whole map. Then when a north line passes over feature and obscures it, you simply cut a hole.

This is really handy if you change the map scale, eg from 1:15,000 to 1:10,000 and the north lines need to have different spacings, as you can just edit the symbol rather than redrawing every line

It's a bit easier just to use the grid lines feature with vertical lines, then you can set the spacing to what it should be.

OK Ross what's your time-saving trick for nibbling the lines off at the top and bottom of the map?

Nicks technique is amazing. I used it for the ANOC maps…work a charm. Really easy to cut holes too!

Scissors

I've always begrudged the time it takes to do a layout (maybe version 11 will help here). But its got a bit better with the realisation that, if you get into “edit object” mode before selecting a group of objects, you can stretch and squeeze the whole group in different ways. I'm thinking of bits of legend and logos etc which usually come from another map and need to fit into a new space. Those scale bars consisting of black and white rectangles for example, can be stretched out to fit a different scale.

Cool with all these useful tips/tricks.

I like to make a thin line symbol, that I use to digitalise my scanned fieldwork. When the line is in the right place (corresponds the fieldwork) I use the “change symbol of object” tool to convert it into the right symbol (often a fat line - contour/track).

I do this to avoid having the drawing line obstructing the view of the scanned fieldwork.

Who draws north lines individually? - see nh comments on page 36. This “solution” provided has limitations - but is good for cutting the N line where it covers important stuff.

The recommended method is to generate ALL of the north lines in one hit, then edit where necessary - trim back or chop out sections.

1. Select the icon for the north line (arrow or straight line).

2. Go to Map/Create Grid Lines (OCAD10), or Extras/Grid Lines (OCAD9).

3. Select only “create vertical lines”.

This method allows for off-setting the north lines - nh's method probably will not.

You define the offset in the symbol initialisation in nh's method. I really liked nicks version, was so simple to use and allowed for quick and easy changes.

All you need to do is change the angle from 90 degrees to whatever offset you want. Simple. There is no chopping back of each line as you only draw the area you want in the first place

I think you have misinterpreted the meaning of “offset”. I don't mean to change the angle of the north lines, but to literally shift all of them east or west a tad (or more), yet retain the angle at which they were generated.

Area symbols in OCAD are locked in to a predefined OCAD grid and cannot be readily shifted without having to edit the symbol - you do exactly the same (i.e. work out the off-set in mm) with the traditional method, so here there is no time saving.

Although I think the “nh” method has lots of merit, I think I'll still stick to the tried and true method that I've used on well over 100 maps since it was introduced in OCAD7. We shift the north lines to make the maps aesthetically pleasing to look at. This may require all of the north lines to be displaced (or off-set) a few mm, yet still retain the prescribed equidistant intervals.

The area symbol method has to be used with care, especially if a partial map is later extracted, or with cutting out small sections of the north lines.

@The Map Guy, If you have more time, such as at the beginning of a mapping project, then using the Grid Lines function on OCAD could be better. But if you want to generate north lines quickly then I think the area symbol method is best. This is why we chose to use it for the ANOC maps, as there was a lot to do last minute.

@Paul I, I thought the decision to represent the trees on the map was a good choice, they were really obvious on the map amongst the brown, and also obvious in the terrain as they were the only green things above 1m.

I have tried both methods over the years for magnetic north lines (I think Mark Roberts showed me the method using the symbol). There are merits to both ways. I currently use the generate grid method. For both ways, I find I can draw the magnetic north lines on any map in 5 to 15 minutes so for me compared with the time it takes to draw a map it's trivial and not an issue.

Also, I quite enjoy doing the layout of the map as I think it's important to present the map in the best possible way and I'll spend extra time on getting the layout right with things like legends/logos/titles/scale bars placed optimally not looking cluttered or too much empty space - there's an art to it. I also try to make each map unique by trying out slight differences in layout.

A bit more on controlling the dashes (esp important in MTBO). I keep noticing places where the dash is too long and on inspection it turns out there's a corner point in the line (hollow square). There's something in the way I draw lines that gives me corner points and I haven't got down on what it is. I know you can get them if you drag two bezier tangents from the same point but I don't think it's that.

Anyway from the point of view of dashes, a corner point divides a line into sections, so that you get a FULL DASH on either side of it, in other words a double-length dash. Whereas a dash point (the little diamond) gives a standard dash at the point. In both cases the dash lengths on either side are adjusted somewhat to give equal dash lengths over each section of line. So if someone can tell me why I'm getting inadvertent corner points I'll be grateful (but still dealing with them for years to come I suspect).

Selwyn provided this tip, which helps me a lot when there are lots of background images. I find myself wanting to frequently switch between photos, lidar, old map etc. From version 10, you can push the background list outside the OCAD window, and carry on drawing without closing it.

WOW - the white framing on the numbers as per Dwayne's map makes them so much easier to read. Hoping that this becomes standard practice

Be careful when doing the white outline using CONDES You need to Bold the number, as the white 'bites' into the size of the number, reducing it back to being Normal If you make a big enough highlight (0.5)or something, you can get the number to disappear.

In the latest CONDES (9) you can highlight the line and the control as well. Luckily, this setting doesn't bite into the thickness of the lines, but still does for the numbers

TONIC will have white framing around the numbers. Entries close in 4 days.

Thanks Jim, explains why some attempts have not been successful.

Just noticed the OCAD blog has instructions for framing control numbers in white. Not obvious because you have to change colour of the text to Purple (not purple transparent) before it works. http://ocad.com/blog/2014/02/new-ocad-11-feature-for-course-setting/ Instructions start after the second map snippet

I am having trouble adding lines on my map using the curve mode tool. I put the cursor down and drag it as usual but some times it picks it up ok, other times it doesnt show up and I cant see where I am drawing. It then stops drawing and I end up with lots of short line fragments. Any ideas how I can improve this? Im using Ocad 9.4

Haven't come across this but first, are you 100% confident in your mouse? An intermittent fault might possibly produce something like this.

You've probably heard my f-words all over NZ. Using the building tool for a complicated building. In, out, in, out, you're halfway round and you cough and OCAD decides your building is finished. You start again, but your mouse finger has tensed up, and it happens again. And again. Putting in additional points to finish off is not a great solution, a tiny discrepancy from a right angle looks awful. No way to continue the object AFAIK. Must be a simple answer?

>Or backgrounds that fail to open? Selwyn figured out, with my help start in Ocad with NZTM grid, save as 8. Open in OOM, open background, save and close. Reopen in Ocad and background was there. But since then Oc9.42 has opened jpeg/w directly… But if I get one road jnct in the correct NZTM, a house 2kms away is 500m out. OOMs however seems to be okay.

Re building tool, use building outline and Fill ? Dave Nevin

Michael - try playing around with the trace (ctrl) function. Cut the bad part of the building out first. Then you can start from just before the error and use Ctrl drag to trace the existing line to get the right angle for the rest of the building. All that remains to do is delete the bit you don't want from the second segment and then merge the two good segments together. I too have struggled with concentration and finger cramps on the third time around a building…

Thanks Dwayne, looks promising. BTW Svend I didn't thank you for your solution (back on page 45) to reduce the footprint of Google Earth, works a treat.

Hi Michael, Does the Edit> Join function work well for joining two sections of the same type of line together?

Yes if they are “close enough”. But that often trips me up. I don't know of any setting that would make this easier, any advice out there? Is that your problem Angela?

Any tips for drawing footpaths next to roads, particularly when there are bends, and keeping the footpath the same width, nice and parallel to the road?

There's a “move parallel” tool which does a good job on most curves. Initially draw the footpath, or paving edge line, on the road edge using curve following. Then move it sideways with “move parallel”. Ack Martin Peat for this one, there are soooo many things like this that lie hidden.

Thanks Michael. I am using OpenOrienteering which may make a difference. Curve following on a road just picks up the centre line rather than the outer edge, so in this case duplicating the symbol has the same end result. I can hold down Cntrl and constrain the movement to parallel or perpendicular, but when the curve is a C shape it gets more complex and requires some scaling or something else to keep the path the same width from the edge of the road. Any further suggestions?

Perfect parallel objects were an interesting exercise… Five simple steps, In ocad 11 at least; 1) Select your object (curved road etc). 2) Select Fill/Make Border symbol (yes that's weird) 3) Select new desired Symbol) 4) Select Move Parallel (Pointer then shows Parallel Mode) 5) Grab any point and do some amazing magic where it auto scales everything to whatever distance apart you want.

Re Post above for parallel objects.. I just made a change to the method to which Michael has correctly identified that you can use the 'Fill/Make Border' symbol to duplicate an object. Who would have known ocad is so wonderful. That eliminates a whole fiddly experience and now is very cool.

Hopefully a dumb question with a simple answer: in OCAD is there a way I can change priority/order of symbols, either for a given object or for all uses of that symbol?

I've been given a map that has been drafted from a distance off aerial photos, and am now trying to make the real-world corrections that I have found. It would be nice to be able to (for examples) add semi-open on to areas mapped as open, or turn parts of 'building' into 'canopy' by just drawing on top of the existing rather than having to create a hole if OCAD wants the new symbol to go under the existing one. (If that sounds like dodgy technique then be assured there would then be tidying up afterwards! and I'm a bit limited by the equipment I have available…)

DON'T. (C'mon, you know you won't get round to tidying up.)

You can just change the order of the 'colors', under the 'map' menu (eg. move yellow 50% up above yellow to get rough open over open). Though I wouldn't really recommend it, it could cause some funky results with printing to have layers of colour overlapping. If the map is not being used for any big competitions and you simply want to save time, then go for it

There's a really easy way of doing what you want to do but I'm not going to tell you. Your map will turn into a total nightmare if you do things the lazy way so you're better off doing it properly from the start. Despite your best intentions, the tidying up thing won't happen, and will be quite difficult to do because of how you've hidden things.

Thanks Marquita. Nick I've realised you have a problem, and we haven't solved it. Here are some suggestions. The soundest way is to cut a hole, or to cut the area into two bits, one to stay the same and the other to change. If you can't do that for any reason, change the area object to a temporary line (I have a purple line for such things.) Then fill in the area inside the line, piece by piece. If you use curve-following (ctrl key) it can be quite fast.

I still issue f-words when drawing buildings. But as well as Dwayne's tip (page 50) I'm fixing partially completed or wrong objects with the “re-shape” tool. (Might only be in version 11.) According to the drawing mode most recently used this can preserve right angles if you want it to. It has also revolutionised map fix-up. No more fiddling with points or tangent handles, just redraw the offending bit. I didn't notice it for quite a while - thanks Mark Roberts.

In OpenOrienteering to snap to existing objects when starting to draw or while drawing a path, hold Shift. Then hold Ctrl while drawing the path and it will snap to right angles.

Or to draw a new object with the same alignment Ctrl+click the original object before starting to draw the new path. Drawing angles will then be automatically constrained to the picked direction (and its perpendicular directions) until you press the Ctrl key.

Maybe this is an OOM innovation and not in OCAD. I have used this a lot in the past few days for drawing lots of buildings and has been very useful.

When fixing an old map to match a modern photo, I used to use this trick: in the road symbols, under “double line”, switch off the street infill. Lets me see the road on the photo, and is easily reversed when finished. Doesn't seem to work for me now, the fill is still there although it stops hiding the sidelines at junctions. Anyone know what's happening here?

Road infill - doh! Its working perfectly. I had a carpark that extended under the road symbol and that's what I saw:-))

just a quick word of thanks to those of you who had the conversation buried somewhere deep in this thread about using the 'move parallel' tool to create footpath lines on pre-drawn roads, you saved several hours of my life and many shreds of sanity this afternoon!

The maps used for the GPS tracking for this weekends world cup in Switzerland appear to have shaded relief. I assume this is not on the actual competition map though.

https://www.tulospalvelu.fi/gps/private/20151002_WCF_L_HE/?v=m3

I haven't noticed this effect before but in the new OCAD 12 I see there is a new hillshading function so maybe that is how it was done. Can anyone shed any more light on this? (pun intended)

Incidentally on the middle distance map the shading seems to me to be from the wrong direction, especially around the first half a dozen controls, creating a multistable perception illusion (thanks wikipedia). In other words up looks like down and vice versa. https://www.tulospalvelu.fi/gps/private/20151003_WCF_M_HE/?v=m3

Reshape may have been the most significant feature of version 11. What of version 12? This may be eyesight-related, but I seem to spend an inordinate amount of time trying to pick a point on a line or edge. You can now define larger marks. These little things can be very productive. Other suggestions?

This is really really rare but it might be useful to know that OCAD files can contain bad objects. Optimise/Repair deals with some of these, but doesn't deal with eg line objects of zero length, rectangles with one dimension zero, etc. How they get there I wouldn't have a clue, and they seem to do no harm. Until you use the file with Condes. I've found some problems lately. Finn Arildsen just has to be the world's most responsive program author, he confirms that there are some odd objects that he has to trap when displaying the map, and presumably we haven't exhausted all the oddity types yet:-))

For OCAD 12 users. Doing my first real job in OCAD12 and having a bit of bother with out of memory stoppages after extensive editing sessions. It's only 2mb so not what you would call big. The lesson is, don't have OCAD 11 running at the same time. There's only one “unsaved map” kept by OCAD, and you miss out on the chance to “open unsaved map?” Let me know if you have any similar issues with 12.

That remark about larger marks in OCAD 12 was not right. Larger marks can let you see them better but it doesn't control picking an object or vertex. That is controlled by a preference: drawing and editing: tolerances. I've been experimenting and a big tolerance isn't necessarily better. When there are several objects close, it sometimes stubbornly refuses to select the one you want. Gone back to a smaller tolerance of 5 pixels.

A trap for old players. IF you are using OCAD 11, and IF your eyes are not so good and you find a Windows setting to make it easier to see what's on the screen, then you may not be able to update the OCAD information notepad. The OK and other buttons on the bottom of the dialogue won't be there. (Might be dependant on Windows version, I'm on Win7. Not sure whether it happens in Win10. But OCAD has fixed it from their end in OCAD 12.)